Prepare for medical or dental school through the on-campus, postbaccalaureate Premedical Program at Harvard Extension School. In the end, it won’t matter what is on your resume or your LinkedIn account. 1. Employers have the right to know the difference between those who have fared well in rigorous classes (Harvard College and HES grads), and those who have demonstrated a particular mindset necessary to break into a very competitive system (Harvard College students who have won acceptance over a broad set of their peers vs. HES students). The only option for those who would have attended as a freshman, had circumstances been a bit different, is HES and programs like it. There is no place to report this, and even if you could, what would be the consequence? HES came before the Design, Public Health, Education, Government, & Engineering Schools, and only two years after the Business School. The above states a fact — the specific school name is displayed, along with the university that the school is ‘governed’ by. If you are afraid the data will contradict your hypothesis, then consider taking another course on research and writing fundamentals and stop wasting everybody’s time here with your long-winded evasions. HES students have all tried explaining that paying for 3 class (out of pocket, no financial aid or school loans), passing the courses with a B or higher (no exceptions), submitting required documentation and applying on time (in fact being penalized for applying late) and then of course, graduating within the five year (if I remember correctly) is no easy task. Unlike the snobbery who think otherwise, early members of the academy believed in the democratization of education and the value of “extending” Harvard to those who might otherwise have no had the opportunity of attending. I would not want to list it as Harvard Extension School because, at least in the industry I’m in, there’s no understanding that “Extension School” is a college. Right? B.B, while I understand the nature of your employee making disparaging remarks about other schools, HES has Harvard faculty who also teach at Harvard College and at HBS as well. “I’ve got your dues right here.” I can relate to your experiences…except.. Harvard Summer School. 2. After I woke up from daydreaming I realized that the ‘xplaning to be done incessantly for the rest of my life was not worth the potential gain. In classroom learning is something HES refuses to compromise on. This just leaves much to the imagination and that can go bad really quickly. No one cares. Many are correct when they said “society looks down on extension degrees”. HES seems to attract people wanting to misrepresent themselves on their resumes, like dog crap attracts flies. I have a computer science degree, and the HES curriculum is the toughest I’ve encountered. Secondly, nobody has had much of an issue with using “Extention Studies” on a diploma until just recently with the advent of automated processes for pre-screening job applicants. One suggestion I have for HES, since they obviously want to keep “Extension Studies” in their resume guidelines, is to incorporate the field of study too. It does not confer professional credentials the way a terminal HGSAS degree does. The whole Extension, no Extension thing is mostly about money, politics and privilege. That’s about a $10,000 application with countless hours of work to boot. But, if I did not have the MS or PhD, I would be far more ambivalent about having a Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies as my one and only graduate education listing… from a career advancement perspective. Even though they don’t care, if they SEE “extension,” (because it’s on the resume for all to see and be confused by lol) it becomes this big (boring) explanation about the differences between the ADMISSIONS processes, followed by even more explanation (in an effort the then RE-build up the value of the degree which I seemingly just explained away) about why the person with whom you are speaking (and just convinced that admissions is non-competitive) should non-the-less STILL HIGHLY VALUE the degree because the professors are the same, the credits are the same, the location is (often) the same, and the research component is more like a small dissertation than a thesis, etc, etc. If Harvard University awards the degree, then that person graduated from Harvard University. I also think “Harvard University Extension School” (per the official guidelines for the ALM in Management) is acceptable. You make the assumption that not listing “extension” dictates that the resume-reviewer will (or likely will) assume we went to Harvard College (etc.). She explained how tough the admittance courses were and that a part of her wishes they actually would accept SAT scores. Can you generate revenue? And finally, as far as the rigor of admission, etc. Except that Harvard does not agree with your opinion. It is OK to list your HES degree as being from Harvard. Unfortunately, your resume might have already been sidelined for another candidate’s resume containing a more immediately recognizable degree major. It was established as a kind of Boston area outreach program to provide higher education to those who had obligations that kept them away from traditional schools. Seriously, look at that link and tell me that the quality of education isn’t legit. Harvard University IS the actual degree grantor while (like the college) HES is just a smaller fraction of what University offers. Just wanted to share my two cents. At the graduate level, “Harvard University” is associated with the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences programs that lead to MAs and PhDs. Harvard Extension School? Candidate B probably studied with the same professors in the same courses as Candidate A, but all the while raising a family, working full-time, and managed to pay his own tuition. 14K) are graduate students who got their undergraduate degrees somewhere else and are attempting to include the “Harvard” brand on their resume along with many other prestigious institutions. This question gets to the heart of the identity issue. This reflects that your program is bit more “diversified” than others at Harvard. It’s totally misleading to me and it is on every social media post and posting about this person (i.e. You take a reading & writing comprehension that you must pass, then 3 courses are required where you have to earn a B or higher. Only one third of students (a minority) attend the College which most people associate with Harvard’s perceived prestige. The word extension on your resume simply reflects that your degree came from the Division of Continuing Education so you are part of a program designed for people who want to continue learning beyond just a bachelors degree in a very “open-minded” less rigid way. For example: http://www.extension.harvard.edu/faculty-directory/david-c-bell Preach Christine! HES is unique specifically for its structure and its original mission. Should the “cost” of listing “Harvard University” on my resume be the time and confusion required to explain the ALM vs MBA every time someone sees my resume or my degree? Contrary to the blanket generalizations and assertions the author of this blog makes, I’m not trying to deceive people. I have seen Harvard Extension School students complain about this (“The professor was not accessible and this was not explained prior to the start of the class. I pointed where you should look. When people find out, it not only makes you look bad, it reflects badly on. Anyone that graduated from HES also graduated from Harvard University. This blog in particular (as Thomas says) actually does a disservice to the ALM and ALB for the above reasons of 1, 2, 3, and 4… generally your view is too rigid and people Googleing the HES degree will unfortunately read this one-sided (and quite inflammatory) view on “the intent of graduates who leave off the word extension.” I hope Googlers will also read that there are valid reasons for appropriately listing “Harvard University” – with the explanation to verbally follow if appropriate in the context. So, key is think more about the value you can add to yourself or any environment. The trial period that ES students have to complete in order to obtain admission is essentially serving the same function. One can sit in class and work mostly on computer. • have HES integrated into the college Many/most HES graduates would either not be admitted to those schools, or would choose not to go even if they were competitive enough to be admitted because those schools generally require full-time enrollment in most graduate programs. Why have they come to HES to prepare them for medical school? What makes up the difference? This and HES made the degree significantly more expensive. It happens all the time. Thanks Taffygirl. It seems best to just say what is on the diploma: MLA, Extension Studies, Harvard University. It is not possible to complete a degree program without being physically present on the Harvard campus for some period of time. Sometimes it is an issue of the economy changing, therefore additional education or completing interrupted education is necessary. We’re in the 21st century, people, get with it. It’s already happened at most universities where there is no distinction between online degrees and on-campus degrees. To draw bold conclusions then, in my mind, without rigorous methods amounts to “proof by repeated assertion.” Once we open that can of worms (as many on blogs addressing the subject of Harvard Extension do) then the blogs become noninformative. Simply because I know human behavior and I don’t want to invite confusion and doubt where none is warranted. So people have to wing it … and some will abuse it. proud? Harvard Extension is one of the 12 degree granting schools that comprise HARVARD UNIVERSITY! If I have an ALM in Marketing (which, I don’t) and I’m interviewing with a top hiring firm who is interviewing me for the SOLE REASON that they think I met the rigors of the ADMISSIONS process, then I should be ethical enough to explain the difference given that situation. BL: There is only one academic standard and either a student meets it or does not. Does it mention anything about the extension school or just the university? The headhunters are right. given it’s long history of service in the American colonies. Bush’s “c” to President Obama’s ______. Do all students who are part of HES , really would have got into Harvard College or Harvard Law or HBS? I’ve got your dues right here. Division of Continuing Education Saeed was dead on in his assessment and I could not agree more with forming a distinction between a degree candidate and Joe Public taking classes. Oh, I guess we’ll have to table this discussion as “someone” refuses to supply their credentials and loses by default. Someone on the thread pointed out that there should be some distinction between those admitted to a degree program and those who are essentially auditing. Completely different letters.. Harvard Institute for Learning in Retirement (617) 495-4072 HILR@extension.harvard.edu. That’s just nonsense, and reeks of insecurity. Note that my thesis was very labor-intensive owing to the huge amount of data I had to gather for my computer assisted content analysis, so I suppose some people spend less time on their theses if they are using traditional methods of research. I am looking into getting a second masters degree. That is why I feel that HES’ “Extension Studies” major can be more a liability for graduate degree holders than for those who completed their undergraduate education. I am thinking in the end I will most likely attend a school in my state – Johns Hopkins University and be done with it period – end of story. In fact, most of the exceptional work came from non traditional students. With the single exception of HES AB students, most of Harvard University students (approx. But “Extension” is clearly stated in both cases. The bar is high bt not the quality. Finally, I think that your blog is actually doing more harm to Harvard extension school students, as it is well referenced in google, than anything else because when employers search for Harvard Extension School on internet, they find your blog, and they end up thinking that Harvard Extension School students are liars. Our typical student is over 30, has previously completed one or two years of college, and works full time. Liberal/extension “flaw” wasn’t much of a concern for them (including big companies, e.x. Now what?”, Be proud of your school. Whether you got your degree from hard University or a bubble gum machine, what matters is how well you perform in the cooperate the world. She proudly said “Because I need to finish what I started and this is MY time”. The degree programs aren’t “very, very” different from the day programs. GRE would have been easier. Extension Studies is a standard industry term in continuing education. Then come back and let us know what you found. you bitch about how we put harvard in our resumes without the HES note, and yet you end with the claim that we should “be proud”. Your resume reads: Bachelors in Liberal Arts in Business Management – Harvard University. Although, even an inferior degree from Harvard is better than one from most schools, both in the US and around the world. Seems Harvard takes a very cautious approach when attempting to describe the program. Once out of university and past a certain age, it’s very hard to get back in, often because colleges won’t re admit a student because they are concentrating on traditional freshmen. That’s more so MIT, that other institution of higher education down the road from Harvard, and University of Chicago. Lets not fool anyone. If you ever pay attention, you’ll find that the biggest critics suddenly turn into your most ardent fans when you achieve the success you were aiming for. I don’t agree with it at all. It would be interesting to see a survey of responses from ALB and ALM alumni who have gone on to incredibly successful careers (Psychologist from Princeton would qualify, but we also have fellow alumni teaching at Carnegie Mellon, Emmanuel, Berkley, as well as acceptances at Harvard Medical and Law, Yale, Stanford, (apparently Princeton too). Listing Extension School is better than not listing it! Harvard Extension School is the extension school of Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts.Under the Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences, it offers liberal arts and professional courses, academic certificates, undergraduate and graduate degrees, as well as a pre-medical program. Your email address will not be published. As a footnote this debate feels like something of Identity crisis of some HES student, they want to be recognized as IVY league but knows inside they arnt so have an inferior complex. So I can’t criticize Harvard students who misrepresent their degrees … yet it’s OK for you to criticize Harvard students who cheat on their applications? To avoid perpetuating the perceived problem of “inferiority” of the Extension School, graduates of that school need to own the brand and show how they are actually of high caliber and that the Extension School is similarly deserving of repute. What a complete waste of time and energy her fraud was. Everyone wants to be the Cheerleader, Quarterback, Class President etc. Be clear about where you attended school at Harvard, and be clear about what you studied. So the idea that HES is less-than other Harvard schools is B.S. Is it possible to interact with faculty? None of this ALM in Extension Studies garbage. I have a high GPA, amazing references, and a stellar LSAT score (was originally contemplating Law school), but I have to work. One of the required classes is expository writing. I dare you to walk up to one of THEM and say that, it’s easy to look down on the students, it isn’t to someone with as much distinction as “Akira Yamaguchi Professor of Health and Indoor Habitation” Jack Spengler. What about the postings of employers that are supportive of extension over the college? And yes, I believe they do so with the “non-traditional” population as well–it is an asset for Harvard. Hes- This solution balances the finical books for the school. 3. I have more comments. • Continue to offer the online course for all who prefer that method but maintain that they MUST have a B average and MUST (as HES students currently do) have 16 credit hours ON CAMPUS-PER SEMESTER. Not in my opinion. Sounds to me like current students, prospective students and the general public have to work around and tackle issues created by Harvard’s desire to have its cake and to consume it. Is it worth it ? bottom line is, what is the salary range for graduate from MLA in software engineering concentration at HES, and what would be the salary range for masters from Harvard college? ALM Information Technology. HES students need to list their degree per the HES guidelines. “Contrary to the blanket generalizations and assertions the author of this blog makes, I’m not trying to deceive people. Harvard says Bachelor of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies which is false since there is no such thing as ‘Extension studies’, It should be labeled as (in my opinion): I never understood why Harvard uses AB from the college for its Bachelor of arts, and ALB for Extension’s Bachelor of Liberal Arts, and not: “BA” It doesn’t really matter I suppose. Here is the problem with “it isn’t a good degree” argument: the key stakeholders don’t agree with you. If I had received a M.Div, I would also list “M.Div., Harvard University.” I wouldn’t (personally) go into “M.Div., Harvard University, Divinity School.” Why? http://www.extension.harvard.edu/about-us, “We are Harvard—extended to the world for every type of adult learner. It appears that Harvard is being pulled in two directions. This gives a certain number of “regular” Harvard privileges to enrolled students, but you are definitely not a regular Harvard student. Some foreign students (many in China) know the Harvard brand carries significant prestige at home and are lax when it comes to providing the clarity of which school or program they attended. Harvard is the best…HES makes it possible for me to get exactly what I want”. My solution would be to simply: I went to a community college. Some people do look down on HES because of different admissions standards, but HES students still have to take classes taught by Harvard faculty, and they are HARD. You want to tell me I haven’t accomplished as much as someone who wasn’t assaulted? Whether this is driven by a fear of the value of their own degree being somehow diluted or is just plain elitist “snobbery,” it has definitely caused us to question our decision to invest tens of thousands of dollars (so far) in our son’s HES degree. They should list it as is Harvard Extension School, Harvard University and not worry about what anyone thinks if they’ve worked hard and are proud of their hard work. Sorry, I not with you on this one. Some graduates don’t want to admit they attended the Harvard Extension School, because of the stigma associated with the part-time program. But given that the majority of HC students need financial aid from the University (with the tuition, room and board costs in 2016) and also noting as we are all fully awate: that there is NO University sponsored financial aid for HES students, (we all either pay the freight ourselves or get our own bank loans)….. (New: Launched @HarvardExtended twitter feed, April 2010. Afte reading all these discussions, I have a simple approach for people who are wondering about HES versus HC. A while later, she tells us about HES and how it made it possible for her to attend school AFTER raising her siblings since she was a child, AFTER fighting cancer TWICE and WHILE maintaining her already established career. Having completed a very difficult degree program that took many years and a huge writing and research project, I am proud to list the Harvard Extension School ALM degree (concentration in history) on my resume. It is worth every penny, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I have another question, relating to online education. > It’s strange to watch the relevancy of a blog change over time. Why is my friend from ALM a PhD student at HSPH? For the ALM or graduate degree, I agree that it becomes a bit more important to include the Extension School when listing it. “Many, if not most”–is there support for this statement? They won’t think you are, necessarily, a genius, but they will be impressed. I am prospective student to the Harvard Extension school. And it’s not just me. There should not be any doubt or questioning about the degree he received, yet he was subjected to something that graduates from other Harvard schools would never experience. This title would make sense if we were also designing our Masters Degree but there are clear concentration pathways laid out. An employer may want to see what you focused your graduate education on, but a “Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies” diploma does not immediately convey the same message to someone as, say, a “Master of Business Administration”, a “Master of Science in Computer Science”, or a “Master of Finance” does to prospective employers. > My experience with fellow ALB alumni and alumnae is we do not fudge it at all, trying to make it sound like we went through the college. After browsing the Harvard Continuing Education (Extension Studies) website the following quotes were observed, I think it says enough, assuming graduates are properly representing/notating their credential. this is harvards way of saying “you didn’t pay for the title”. But can it be done for HES undergraduate degrees (ALB) or liberal arts graduate degrees in social sciences, physical sciences, computer science, and other fields? But there’s another possibility: The Extension School tells its graduates that it’s actually OK to use “Harvard University” as long as graduates also include the bogus “in Extension Studies” designation when spelling out the name of the degree (NOTE: The guidelines changed in 2014; please see the update at the bottom of this post): No one at the Harvard Extension School majors in “Extension Studies”, so why do we have to state this on our résumés? Bachelor [or Master] of Liberal Arts, Harvard University Extension School. • You compete with probably millions to apply (mostly because many arent fully aware of HES) If the programs are sharing course offerings, I would think that it is ridiculous and pretentious to force greater distinction between them other than just the simple degree title (i.e. We all have agreed that doing SATS scores is A LOT easier than those 3 required courses. I want the best. It’s important not to be misled by rumors and perceived reputations before investing money in your education. If somebody told us i have ALM from Harvard University ; would anyone of us really known he did it from Harvard Extension School ; part time? That isn’t true, everyone knows it, and no one is arguing it. A thesis is not a long research paper — it really is much more structured. I.e, we should accept that because our admissions process is open, we therefore need to disclose this fact to ALL lookers-on, even if it does invite unnecessary damage to the HES value. Sure if you have 30-35 grand, free housing and transport, no children, no job and all the time in the world to apply, get admitted and graduate – then yes, it’s a piece of cake. > The years of preparation and excellence that went into a Harvard undergrad getting accepted and then getting through. There are various alternatives to Harvard Extension that offer appropriate degree names and high school reputation. This is an immense gift and one that is allowing me to pursue my education in the way I see fit for me and my future career plans. I state it as a preference for you. Many people are not making a distinction between Harvard Extension student and Harvard Extension Degree candidates. Harvard Extension School résumé guidelines are bogus. For me, Harvard and my degree title is what will be used. I know the discipline a 13 year old has to have to do homework every night while playing a sport and being in an after school club, at an elite college prep program. He/she likely possesses the qualities of responsibility, reliability, perseverance, resourcefulnesss, good time management, commitment, eagerness to learn, and so on. Harvard Professional Development Programs (617) 998-8500 PDP@extension.harvard.edu. It happens every few years where my firm gets an HES grad misrepresenting their degree. I still have not completely decided to attend HES because of these issues. I don’t agree with some of the things you said, but I think it’s worth exploring certain issues in more detail: It doesn’t mean that you have the right to misrepresent your degree on your resume, but you have the right to say you are doing an Harvard degree and that you attended Harvard University! I would be honestly curious to know the results. They want to sell the “Harvard” but dont give away either. Bosses, I hope I can ask you to do your homework: If you see “extension,” do your part as an interviewer to find out what it means. 2. Harvard University Columbia University has a School of Extended Education. Then, there are “Harvard Instructors” who are those faculty members who hold an appointment in another Harvard school where they teach in addition to the Extension School. Does that infer–by your fractured logic–that they can’t get into HES? But, the stars don’t align for every intellectually gifted, well rounded, hard – working person in that way. These are kids that have been paying their dues since 7th or 8th grade–learning languages, participating in athletics, plugging away at calculus while most kids are playing video games. It lets employees pursue higher education, without having to open deal subjecting employees to the competitive admissions standards of Harvard’s non-HES schools. *n.b.,Extension degree holders are in no way ashamed of Extension, we just do not want to risk the descrimination that may potentially result from the uninformed ignorance by others, ones who may withhold deserving employment opportunities, by grossly assuming a substandard Harvard education (as if that is even possible). Do you really think Harvard forgot there was a accidental back-door hole in their otherwise exemplary university through which thousands of “commoners” have snuck in, and will shut it down as soon as some clerk figures it out? In addition, the ALB or ALM is a degree granted by Harvard University (https://www.harvard.edu/on-campus/commencement/degree-abbreviations). vs finances at the College: Enrollment is capped off at the number of seats available in each incoming class and the cash flows in what must be a huge outflow of Harvard money for the College’s University-given financial aid to the College’s students. Id rather avoid the crazies personally on my way to school. After reading these comments, I am now debating whether HES will be an expensive burden on my resume. I did the Health Careers Program at Harvard Extension and am choosing between University of Chicago and University of Pittsburgh. Are you out to prove she lied on her resume? > Have a look at some of the websites about “history of the Harvard Extension School”, or as much of Dean Shinagel’s book as there is online, and have a look at “history of the Columbia School of General Studies.” It seems to me that the term “extension” or “university extension” comes from an earlier period in the 20th Century and meant at that time what we today would understand as a division of “Continuing Education”. Do I feel bad sometimes about saying I graduated from the school because I went online? The world has plenty of fakery all around. It’s really something to be asked to include something on a resume but fail to include any mention on my diploma what I actually studied. Posted Harvard Extension School résumé guidelines are bogus, September 2013. Think of it as attending the summer school/winter school during undergrad. don’t whine about my punctuation, i don’t care, i didn’t write this to be graded on it. > But to answer your inquiry more fully, if I read it correctly, against the U-Mass degree, I’ll take the HES ALB. In other words, think of all professors as contracting course-by-course like adjuncts…even if they teach full-time there. It’s safe to assume that Harvard’s standards were at least high enough to keep you out. If you want to point a finger at somebody (which is totally ridiculous by the way) then point it at Harvard. But, in all seriousness, there are more quantifiable statistics available from HES’s degree programs. Well, what do you think of a business consultant who did an online certificate course listing his education as Harvard University? Cash cow purpose since your school was the Extension school them their students that truly interest you HBS! 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